Russian Brides / Ukrainian Brides

c۞g
Posts: 21225
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:02 am

RE: Russian Brides / Ukrainian Brides

Post by c۞g » Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:56 pm

Where did you get them?
Spamvertised domains / redirects / targets...

Usually start at uribl.com
snag 1 domain, investigate DNS, view *every* site before adding to a Notepad TXT file, then past those results into a discussion - as with every other "list" I create. Most are transient, expect them to change to something else in a short amount of time.

An example of spam from OP (until it's deleted):
systemhalted.ru

Code: Select all

http://diswww.mit.edu/bloom-picayune.mit.edu/sipb-afs/38219

Neilich
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:22 am

RE: Russian Brides / Ukrainian Brides

Post by Neilich » Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:22 am

Why do Russian Bride sites automatically get a bad rating? For example, here is a post by a journalist on AskMen that actually took the time to go to Ukraine to see what was happening for himself.

http://www.askmen.com/entertainment/better_look/10_ukrainian-mail-order-brides-part-1.html

It doesn't occur to me that the entire industry is a scam as is presented here.

While spamvertised domains are an issue, and affiliate marketing is the cause for this, the spurious claims about identity theft,, credit card fraud, phishing are entirely false. It is batch reports like this which bring WOT into disrepute. WOT is about detecting fraud sites and making the internet a safer place to spend time, not about grinding personal axes.

Neilich
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:22 am

RE: l

Post by Neilich » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:13 am

Of course pimping in't legal. Russian Brides is just a marketing term, like Date Tall Men or Army Dating. I have no idea why it automatically should have a bad reputation.

HansTheBlueFrog
Posts: 1008
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:46 am

RE: Russian Brides / Ukrainian Brides

Post by HansTheBlueFrog » Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:12 pm

Perhaps this will help to provide additional insight.

Learn more about this type of Russian scam: http://ikillspammers.blogspot.com/2010/01/lady-marmelady-another-in-long-line-of.html

PuddinTame
Posts: 849
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:09 pm

RE: Russian Brides / Ukrainian Brides

Post by PuddinTame » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:24 pm

Russian/chinese bride sites are bad for a variety of reasons. Mostly because they introduce women into a situation where the power balance is not in their favor. Back in my journalism days I did a similar investigative piece for SE asian brides (Philippines, Thailand, Vietnam, that area). I interviewed about 20 couples and without exception, A)The men were old, rich, and had entitlement problems and B)the women were young, poor, and troubled. This is obviously anecdotal but in my mind it made a very strong impression that these are simply dirty old men who can no longer (or never could) attract mates who meet their superficial standards and instead are willing to double down and just pay for it. There's also a narrative among the more obnoxious 'men's rights' movement that asian brides are better because they don't give all that backtalk and bother about their rights, sharing in the balance of power in a relationship, etc.

Because of the complete lack of regulation, the financial incentive, and the nearly impossible situation it puts women into (being in a foreign country and having to be married to a sleazeball to stay in it) I can't see anything positive ever emerging, and I see it simply as a cynical ploy where the rich world (literally) screws the poor world yet again.

Neilich
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:22 am

RE: Russian Brides / Ukrainian Brides

Post by Neilich » Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:51 am

I don't agree with some of your points.

Firstly, there is regulation in the industry (at least in Ukraine where most of the "Russian Brides" are located, and in the US (via IMBRA - International Marriage Brokers Regulation Act).

Anecdotal evidence from 20 years ago is not the same as visiting a website, judging it individually and providing a fair ranking.

There is an article by Helen Croydon which appeared in the Sunday Times a week or so ago which gives an updated view of the situation. You may search for it, I shan't provide the link here as it is behind a paywall (damn you Rupert Murdoch) It seems to me, that the women are not being exploited. There is a demographic crisis in Ukraine, and without International dating, how on earth are the women supposed to find a mate? Polygamy?

From my experience of being on a tour with a "Russian Brides" site, the guys are not incapable, psychotics losers. In fact they are busy men, who run their own businesses, often spend time away from home and desire a companion who needs them. Yes, the age difference is typically greater than you would find back home in the US, but matches that found in the ladies society. The discrimination shown by the general public could be easily described by creating a word with an "ism" on the end. How about "mailorderbrideism". It's not healthy and not to be encouraged. It is unfair to demonize sections of the population in this way.

While I deplore the affiliate tactics used to promote such sites (typically the illegitimate sites of which I have no problem providing a poor WOT ranking), the legitimate sites provide a legitimate purpose in our society and in the ladies home society, and WOT makes no distinction when the Platinum "Batch Rating" tool is used. All sites are painted with the same color, when in fact - as in real life - all sites ought to be judged individual. The batch tool is supposed to be used to rate spam - fly by night domains, not legitimate sites which require individual attention. It's simply wrong, and a failing on the part of WOT not to regulate such activity.

Neilich
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:22 am

RE: Russian Brides / Ukrainian Brides

Post by Neilich » Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:12 am

Thank you for the link, I have received spam from this domain and understand what you are talking about.

However, there are other links that were rated in the batch which are not appropriate. I have used Anastasiadate to go on tour with. I used them to chat and send messages, and I went on tour with them to meet some of the ladies I was talking to.
Once, one of the ladies asked me for money in a mail, obviously not being a complete idiot I flagged it to the site, they reviewed the situation and I got a full refund immediately and the girl was removed. This is not a scam operation but is grouped by WOT in the same class as every other fl by night operation run out of a dingy basement in Kiev.

I see this blithe posting and it makes my blood boil -

Identity theft / credit card abuse
FAKE dating / Russian | Ukrainian brides
enter no information, attempt no transaction

None of this is accurate. Yet it is routinely the subject of Batch Ratings on WOT.

Yes, the user has to be careful, but there is no systematic scam. Only the "9/11" and the "Birther" croiwd can really believe in such a thing. There is a demographic crisis in Ukraine. Simply put, not enough men. Do match.com accept Russian ladies son their site? No. How can I meet them then??

Also, on the Anastasia scorecard is another batch rating (at least I assume it is part of a batch) by Mark Giles - it includes the following links -

http://www.consumerfraudreporting.org/russian_women.php (doesn't it strike you that this is actually an affiliate link for Elena's Models? - check the frame near the botton of the page when you click the link)

http://www.scamfreeinternet.com/2009/08/99-russian-brides-fake/ (again, another link to Elenas Models)

What the hell is going on here??

Sorry for the rant. I am simply being the Devil's advocate having had a positive experience, an not prepared to let it lie.

Neilich
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:22 am

RE: The point is that you

Post by Neilich » Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:06 am

The real problem is that most of the men who use these sites aren't looking for wives, they are looking for online companionship. If you really want to find wife on them you can of course. A simple trip to Ukraine with one of them will prove that to you.

Guest

RE: Russian Brides / Ukrainian Brides

Post by Guest » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:14 am

@ PuddinTame =

Sadly, you are one hundred percent right.

Very well said!

Neilich
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:22 am

RE: Russian Brides / Ukrainian Brides

Post by Neilich » Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:26 pm

SuperHero58, I respect your right to disagree, and respect my right to pose contrary evidence. Channel 9 Australia made a report recently on he phenomena -

http://youtu.be/tuZaIPGlq-I

Likewise the Huffington Post -

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/harmon-leon/south-american-mail-order_b_1370401.html

These are respected journalists who have taken the time to personally inspect the tours and services and came back with a contrary opinion.

All I have seen on WOT as justification for a low score are a few seeded blog posts written by god knows who.


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