What happened to Firefox and why Palemoon is the new FF(split topic)

Site-rater
Posts: 5820
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:48 pm

RE: What happened to Firefox and why Palemoon is the new FF(spli

Post by Site-rater » Sun May 28, 2017 4:49 am

Out of curiosity, is there even a point to opening 1,000 tabs at once? When I have two dozen tabs open things get quite crowded already and I start to lose track of the open tabs.
Multi-process is around for sandboxing and security, that is, the idea is that every tab shall run in its own process space.
Because both Chrome and Firefox support EME DRM, they also take an additional security step of running the CDM plugin in yet another process, isolating it from the tab. Firefox takes it even one step further, using a custom sandbox for the CDM that severely restricts the CDM's access to the OS and hardware, providing in place of the invasive hardware profile an anonymous, site-specific ID generated on the fly.

destinationtruth
Posts: 806
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 7:47 pm
Location: Cherokee Nation

RE: What happened to Firefox and why Palemoon is the new FF(spli

Post by destinationtruth » Sun May 28, 2017 9:10 pm

<quote user="apollo702">
Was that choice of language necessary? Have I ever been less than respectful to you?
[/quote]

Dear Apollo702,

By no means was I trying to offend, insult, or attack you; rather what I have seen and read by many that are involved at Palemoon.

Though after reading your post again I see that I oddly and out of total coincidence used the same term (Fearmongering) that you used in your post. I did have to chuckle and also see how you thought it was directed at you. You have been around long enough to know by now that if it was just your opinion I was referencing to that I would have replied to you. Don't think there is anyone here that would think I would be afraid to do so.

Now as far as fearmongering, it's a marketing technique that I still feel the developers of Palemoon have been doing. Fear marketing is very effective with certain markets.

Now I respect your opinion, yet mine differs greatly and that is all to this post that is being said.
See ya around,
Heidi

Apollo702
Posts: 1213
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:40 pm

RE: What happened to Firefox and why Palemoon is the new FF(spli

Post by Apollo702 » Mon May 29, 2017 2:30 am

<quote user="destinationtruth">
Dear Apollo702,

By no means was I trying to offend, insult, or attack you; rather what I have seen and read by many that are involved at Palemoon.

Though after reading your post again I see that I oddly and out of total coincidence used the same term (Fearmongering) that you used in your post. I did have to chuckle and also see how you thought it was directed at you. You have been around long enough to know by now that if it was just your opinion I was referencing to that I would have replied to you. Don't think there is anyone here that would think I would be afraid to do so.

Now as far as fearmongering, it's a marketing technique that I still feel the developers of Palemoon have been doing. Fear marketing is very effective with certain markets.

Now I respect your opinion, yet mine differs greatly and that is all to this post that is being said.
See ya around,
Heidi
[/quote]

Gotcha. Let's consider the hatchet buried. When I read the post that one word is real sore spot from when they spazzed out on me. After reading your reply I consider this just an unfortunate coincidence and it is case closed. By the time that you read this the OP will be gone.

One thing that I should emphasize is that I believe strongly enough in the project that I believe beyond the moods of the developer(s.) Strangely enough, the lead developer most of the time has a peace/love/understanding/openness... attitude and then sometimes out of the blue thunderbolts rain down from the sky.

This forum IMO has a healthier community than the PM one. For some unknown reason it took a rather insular turn. Maybe because it is still relatively small and therefore has more passionate fans- and perhaps sycophants? It is tough to speculate.



Apollo702
Posts: 1213
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:40 pm

RE: What happened to Firefox and why Palemoon is the new FF(spli

Post by Apollo702 » Mon May 29, 2017 2:51 am

<quote user="site-rater">
Out of curiosity, is there even a point to opening 1,000 tabs at once? When I have two dozen tabs open things get quite crowded already and I start to lose track of the open tabs.
Multi-process is around for sandboxing and security, that is, the idea is that every tab shall run in its own process space.
Because both Chrome and Firefox support EME DRM, they also take an additional security step of running the CDM plugin in yet another process, isolating it from the tab. Firefox takes it even one step further, using a custom sandbox for the CDM that severely restricts the CDM's access to the OS and hardware, providing in place of the invasive hardware profile an anonymous, site-specific ID generated on the fly.
[/quote]


Sorry for being Captain Doublepost. There is a lot to discuss here.

For me, my norm is more like about 330 open tabs. That is because I am an outrageous power user who absolutely needs to have them every day.

One of the ways that I manage that is I run an extension called Tab Utilities Phoenix. One of the many tweaks I make is I put my tab bar on the left side of the screen and then I put in a series of other tweaks such as color to distinguish the current focused tab, read tabs, unread tabs... That way the tabs labels are easily readable when I need to scroll through them. It can be done on a small screen- but it also helps to have a big fat honkin' monitor.

One times when I went over 1000 was one day on a
malware reporting binge- and also to see just how far things could go. I started with one infected page( I think it was Realtor.com) and then I found a bunch of XSS connected to it that also needed reporting. What I would do is continually open up everything else infected(I also have my PM set to open all new links in a new tab if I right-click) and it just kept multiplying. What ended up happening was the list was seemingly endless and I just ran out of time. I stopped discovering new ones and then just started whittling down the list till it hit zero again.

As far as my reasoning against the sandboxing is that it is not impregnable and it makes the browser considerably heavier. However, it is possible to run a browser sandboxed(Sandboxie?) but 99+% of the time I really do that natively- but indirectly.

What I do is by default every new page that I open has all kinds of things like scripts, XSS, cookies,
Java, Flash.... . I look up every script and XSS running in the background and see which to block an which to allow and then I selectively turn these things back on. The difference is I have fine-grained control of what every tab can do. This indirectly functions as sandboxing.

As far as canvas fingerprinting PM has a number of those functions built in and it is possible to further extend those through a number of extensions. I can appear as any combination of browser, OS... as I want. Also, when you block things like cookies and stinky old
Flash you will find that it vastly limits what sites can obtain. Depending on just how much privacy/security you need, you can always augment that even further.

redblade7
Posts: 520
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:18 am

RE: What happened to Firefox and why Palemoon is the new FF(spli

Post by redblade7 » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:38 pm

Another thing too about "legacy" addons, the main reason I need them, is because I enjoy, or rather have become dependent on, the convenience of Vimperator. Vimperator depends on a lot of low-level stuff and cannot be a WebExtension, and stuff like VimFx or Vimium doesn't cover everything I need. The developers of a Vimperator fork/competitor called Pentadactyl long ago moved to Pale Moon due to dissatisfaction with Firefox's rolling release, and Pentadactyl is now specifically developed for Pale Moon.

Also, I have a 23" monitor, and I need an addon like Zoom Page (though a WebExtension version is ready).

Apollo702
Posts: 1213
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:40 pm

RE: What happened to Firefox and why Palemoon is the new FF(spli

Post by Apollo702 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:26 am

<quote user="redblade7">
Another thing too about "legacy" addons, the main reason I need them, is because I enjoy, or rather have become dependent on, the convenience of Vimperator. Vimperator depends on a lot of low-level stuff and cannot be a WebExtension, and stuff like VimFx or Vimium doesn't cover everything I need. The developers of a Vimperator fork/competitor called Pentadactyl long ago moved to Pale Moon due to dissatisfaction with Firefox's rolling release, and Pentadactyl is now specifically developed for Pale Moon.

Also, I have a 23" monitor, and I need an addon like Zoom Page (though a WebExtension version is ready).
[/quote]

I personally don't use Vimperator/Pentadactyl- but I see why a lot of people do. My entire point of being extension happy is most people say they like this/that/the other browser for their features. My point is with a truly open source browser-namely PM- it is possible to modify it and give it so many new capabilities that it barely resembles what was originally downloaded. I compare the original to a cheese pizza and it is possible to pick your own toppings. You could go for something mild or go for the works. It is all up to what you want to do.

As far as porting extensions over I think that they need an entire team to do them in bulk. Also, due to the past carnage there are tons of abandoned extensions that either still work or could easily be fixed with just a few slight modifications- and there is nobody around to protest. With some additional changes a fork or complete new version of old capabilities could bypass that obstacle.

As far as monitors go I absolutely cannot understand the mobile obsession at all. Why torment yourself with that dinky little screen that only is going to drain the battery in a few moments when it is possible to have something truly joyous to work with?

When I advise people on hardware they primarily think of things like the chip, MOBOs, graphic cards... but I include the entire experience including monitors, keyboards, chairs, desks... When you get winning versions of those it makes a drastic difference!



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